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Re: The best sack-closing knot
Newsgroup: rec.crafts.knots
Posted by: Dan Lehman
2008-07-19 04:53:51

> >>> "The procedure is suitable for fast blind tying."
> > Rather, tying the knot as you present is slower, more involved
> > in making time-consuming tucks than is needed.
> The procedure I show for 1244 requires exactly one tuck,
> namely to push the slip-bight.

Yes, just the one tuck, but unfortunately the inchoate knot structure
must be held in an anticipatory form for this tuck, rather than be
tightened a little by each step, such as building up half-hitches
(It's similar to some of the whiz-bang tying methods shown for e.g.
SmitHunter's or Ashley's bends, where one makes just this *one*
final tuck and presto-zappo, voila la noeude; but there is this
tricky preparatory arranging to to so as to enable this.)

> the tying conditions that led me to search for a
> good procedure, namely the need to hold a heavy bag closed
> while tying it. ... I prefer to consider both ends of the bag to be
> inaccessible, and my left hand to have as one of its duties to hold
> the bag closed throughout the procedure.
> Neat! But it requires casting a hitch over the top or
> bottom of the bag, which I find awkward or nearly impossible
> under many conditions in which a bag must be tied closed.

Well, the casting works nicely & quickly if one has accommodating
cord and lots of it (so one can use a big loop, which will then be
drawn down on setting).
However, the method I suggested for the Reverse GLHitch can
be pretty quickly done by making HHitches as long as one can
easily stuff the working cord through the arc to form the HH;
and the nice thing is that each HH gets set tight when formed
--no careful holding and waiting for a final throw to then work tight.

I'll again suggest that hitches here that work nicely with a final
Simple Knotting of the two ends, which sets that cord into the
hitch's cord for security--and so is INdependent of the bound
material for locking friction--is a worthwhile finish. E.g., I've
played around with various hitches in a tarred nylon seizing twine
(1/8th inch) around 3/8" hank of rope (i.e., several (5?) bights),
and it was impressive to see how some bit of later tugging
laterally on various bights would result in a loose hitch (yes,
a Constrictor, too), as the gaps between the bound rope will
be a frictionless void to let the hitch slips as crossing parts
fall over them. But tying off with the simple knot prevented

So, I find Ashley's illustrated method for tying a Groundline H.
to be poor: first, the extra material held open awaiting the
tuck, and then the wrap & tuck finish. Rather, I'd form an
initial HH which would be hauled tight (holding onto the short
end--material efficiency in this!), and then form the 2nd, closing
HH over this.

--not to take away from the pleasures of using #1244/1674!

Btw, I find this distinction of mirror images to be utter nonsense:

> the picket-line hitch, ABOK 1676, and its mirror image,
> the ground-line hitch, ABOK 1680.

They are the same knot, which, like any other, can be reflected.





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