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Re: OT..How come we still export oil to Japan?
Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking
Posted by: D Murphy
2008-05-26 06:19:09

F. George McDuffee wrote in

> distro pruned to amc & rmc
> On 26 May 2008 04:11:25 GMT, D Murphy
> wrote:
>>But you'll have to shift your thinking from what was once true 30
>>years ago.
> ==================
> Both Ford and GMC have European products that meet and in some
> cases ex cede the Japanese levels of performance, durability, and
> economy. Spend some time browsing their European products.
> Its not that the major US car companies can't build fuel
> efficient and economical vehicles, its that they won't build and
> sell those vehicles here in the US.

Nonsense. The European models in most cases don't meet US safety and
crash standards. Not to mention emissions. More often than not when these
models are brought in they are met with weak sales. The Pontiac GTO and
the Merkur XR4Ti come to mind.

There has been a lot written recently in Quality and trade mags about the
problems with Toyota's quality.

If quality is such a big concern then it should be looked at on a model
by model basis rather than blanket statements about Japanese quality
being better.

> My suggestion to both Ford and GMC is to fire all US based high
> and mid level product development/engineering and marketing
> management, and critically evaluate the remaining engineering
> personnel, for any trace of NIH [not invented here] syndrome and
> get rid of them too.

The problem with US auto companies is fairly well known. They have higher
costs than the Japanese automakers. Due in large part to legacy costs of
pensions and health care benefits for retired union workers. At the time
they were put into contracts the average worker lived on average about
one year after retirement. Life expectancy went way up and the pension
plans are underfunded. So the costs come out of operating revenue.

> Have the existing tooling for producing the European vehicles
> duplicated and shipped to the US facilities, and start
> building/selling. The management and engineering salaries saved
> can be used to pay down the corporate debt and fully fund the
> defined benefit and medical pension funds.
> For some examples see:
> http://www.opel.com/flash.html
> http://www.ford.co.uk/
> http://www.ford.de/ns7/kuga/kuga-city-tour/ku20/-/-/-/-
> http://www.ford.de/ns7/katalog/-/-/-/-/-/-
> http://www.ford.de/ns7/katalog/-/-/-/-/-/-#
> http://www.ford.de/ns7/katalog/-/-/-/-/-/-#
> http://cars.yahoo.co.uk/resultsmaxi_100354123_18929499/Diesel,New_Car_G
> uide,Vauxhall,Vauxhall|Agila
> note that the fuel efficiency data is given as X liters/100 KM.
> To convert to US miles per gallon click on
> http://www.eforecourt.com/l_100km_mpg_convert.htm
> {how does 51 M/(US)G gasoline and 62 M/(US)G diesel sound?]

Sounds like it won't pass US emissions for one. Second diesels aren't
popular. Third diesel is more expensive and is taxed higher because it
doesn't affect consumers directly. Most diesel sales are for commercial
vehicles and the cost is passed onto the consumer indirectly. So the
pol's feel safer sticking it to truckers rather than gasoline pwered car

> Check with some of the UK sites for evaluation/durability.
> Nick -- what has been your experience with Ford and GM products
> in Germany?

Maybe you missed the part where the top two vehicles were not econoboxes.
That might change given the price of gas but I'm not ready to get rid of
a paid for car and go into debt to buy a new car that gets better
mileage. The payback isn't there plus there is the safety difference
between big and small. Seems silly to put your life at risk for a few



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